This disscusion is a continuation of the "NY times article" thread but I thought this topic should have a thread of it's own since sex is such a controversial topic in this country.
Firstly, calling Cuba a sex mecca would generate laughter from those familiar with places like Brazil, Thailand, Japan, ect. The only ones who bring up Cuba as a sex tourism location is groups who are looking to bring down the Cuban government. Yes, there's sex happening in Cuba, it would be happening with or without tourism. The vibe in Cuba is a very sexual one and to Americans and some Europeons this can be very exciting or disturbing.
Pornography is illegal in Cuba as is prostitution. Sex with a minor in Cuba if you are a foreigner will get you 25 years in prison. There are a few Canadians in jail down there who were told a girl was older then she was and got busted. Sex meccas, I would think are a place where one can do almost whatever and the government doesn't get in the way. In Cuba a foreign man or women with a Cuban of the opposite sex will get the attention of the police and there will be many questions.
For those who don't know, this whole "sex mecca" thing got started when the soviets pulled out in the early Ninties and the Cuban economy collasped. This caused the beginning of the jineteras/jineteros, also called prostitutes, to begin hustling for money with the tourists. There were thousands of young girls from the provinces flooding into Havana to have sex with tourists just to survive. This went on thoughout the ninties and the Cuban government let it go on as they were in no position to stop it, some say that they let it go on to bring in revenue. But anyway, Cuba in the Ninties could be considerd a sex mecca as there were girls everywhere all over the streets. This went on until the Cuban government, "which reacts when they have all the information they need and a plan that's well thought out" decided to make their move.
The efficiency in which the government rounded up all the hookers is amazing. For a long time they gave em rope and waited till they knew who were providing the rooms for the girls, who the pimps were, the look-outs were, who brought the girls from the provinces to the cities and every other detail. And this was done in every town in Cuba simultaneously in one night. The next day it was a different country. They sent all the girls back to the countryside, arrested the ones in Havana along with the pimps and madams. They rounded everyone up and stopped it. This happened in 1999 and what you see now in Cuba as far as prostitution is a far cry from what was going on in the Ninties "kinda like the music scene too." Now you just see girls hanging out on the Malecon or in front of some nightclubs hoping someone will pay their way in and buy them drinks, is this a sex mecca?
I see a lot more foreign women with Cuban men lately, are they prostitutes? It's always been a place where people cut loose and party. Abayumi, you seem to be reading from something from ECPAT? Maybe that study is about 15 years old when things in Cuba were worse. Have you been to Cuba recently?
Now, in Havana, being a jinetera is like a fashon statement, the girls like to brag about how they went out with a tourist and how stupid he was when he gave her money to pay for her cell-phone bill. The rule is now, if you are a foreigner you have to pay for sex, one way or another, even if the girl likes you a lot.
Outside of Havana the government has really cracked down on protitution to where a tourist cannot enter any hotel or private casa particular with a Cuban girl. I've heard many foreign men "who came to Cuba looking for sex or love" they will never come back because the government is so tough now.
The sad thing is, I think the majority of single men and women who travel to Cuba are really looking for love and marriage. And what happens 99% of the time is they get played by someone just looking to leave the island and who has no conscience whatsoever. Men who are looking for just sex, they go to Bangkok and get a disease. Those looking for love, go to Cuba and get their heartbroken.
Those are my observations. Please, don't read me articles written 10-15 years ago.
Firstly, calling Cuba a sex mecca would generate laughter from those familiar with places like Brazil, Thailand, Japan, ect. The only ones who bring up Cuba as a sex tourism location is groups who are looking to bring down the Cuban government. Yes, there's sex happening in Cuba, it would be happening with or without tourism. The vibe in Cuba is a very sexual one and to Americans and some Europeons this can be very exciting or disturbing.
Pornography is illegal in Cuba as is prostitution. Sex with a minor in Cuba if you are a foreigner will get you 25 years in prison. There are a few Canadians in jail down there who were told a girl was older then she was and got busted. Sex meccas, I would think are a place where one can do almost whatever and the government doesn't get in the way. In Cuba a foreign man or women with a Cuban of the opposite sex will get the attention of the police and there will be many questions.
For those who don't know, this whole "sex mecca" thing got started when the soviets pulled out in the early Ninties and the Cuban economy collasped. This caused the beginning of the jineteras/jineteros, also called prostitutes, to begin hustling for money with the tourists. There were thousands of young girls from the provinces flooding into Havana to have sex with tourists just to survive. This went on thoughout the ninties and the Cuban government let it go on as they were in no position to stop it, some say that they let it go on to bring in revenue. But anyway, Cuba in the Ninties could be considerd a sex mecca as there were girls everywhere all over the streets. This went on until the Cuban government, "which reacts when they have all the information they need and a plan that's well thought out" decided to make their move.
The efficiency in which the government rounded up all the hookers is amazing. For a long time they gave em rope and waited till they knew who were providing the rooms for the girls, who the pimps were, the look-outs were, who brought the girls from the provinces to the cities and every other detail. And this was done in every town in Cuba simultaneously in one night. The next day it was a different country. They sent all the girls back to the countryside, arrested the ones in Havana along with the pimps and madams. They rounded everyone up and stopped it. This happened in 1999 and what you see now in Cuba as far as prostitution is a far cry from what was going on in the Ninties "kinda like the music scene too." Now you just see girls hanging out on the Malecon or in front of some nightclubs hoping someone will pay their way in and buy them drinks, is this a sex mecca?
I see a lot more foreign women with Cuban men lately, are they prostitutes? It's always been a place where people cut loose and party. Abayumi, you seem to be reading from something from ECPAT? Maybe that study is about 15 years old when things in Cuba were worse. Have you been to Cuba recently?
Now, in Havana, being a jinetera is like a fashon statement, the girls like to brag about how they went out with a tourist and how stupid he was when he gave her money to pay for her cell-phone bill. The rule is now, if you are a foreigner you have to pay for sex, one way or another, even if the girl likes you a lot.
Outside of Havana the government has really cracked down on protitution to where a tourist cannot enter any hotel or private casa particular with a Cuban girl. I've heard many foreign men "who came to Cuba looking for sex or love" they will never come back because the government is so tough now.
The sad thing is, I think the majority of single men and women who travel to Cuba are really looking for love and marriage. And what happens 99% of the time is they get played by someone just looking to leave the island and who has no conscience whatsoever. Men who are looking for just sex, they go to Bangkok and get a disease. Those looking for love, go to Cuba and get their heartbroken.
Those are my observations. Please, don't read me articles written 10-15 years ago.
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Re: Is Cuba a Sex Mecca?
Mon, December 5, 2005 - 5:20 PMCaemgen,
You say that calling Cuba a sex mecca would generate laughter from those familiar with places like Brazil, Thailand, Japan, etc...and then you say that those make this charge are trying to bring the Cuban government down. Well, it shouldn't generate laughter, it should generate deep concern. BUT even if Brazil, Thailand and Japan are worst than Cuba which according to ECPAT they are not, that's still hardly grounds for relief. Sexual tourism is sexploitation, child abuse and therefore a crime. Besides, unlike Brazil, Thailand and Japan, the Cuban people have been forced to suffer through 47 years of revolutionary austerity and sacrifice. The payoff was supposed to be a country of social equality not a country where foreigners go to Cuba to have sex with women and underaged children. Wasn't Castro supposed to have ended sexploitation? Isn't that what Cuba was supposed to have been back in the 1950s, a whore house? So what was all of this sacrifice for? So that Cuba could become a bad immitation of what it was allegedly back in the 1950's?
And now to your charge that those who accuse Cuba of being a Sex Mecca want to bring the Cuban government down, why on earth would ECPAT an international organization with ties to UNICEF want to bring the Cuban government down? That's a pretty hefty accusation that you are making there. According to the ECPAT website, ECPAT is composed of 73 groups in 67 countries and most of those countries are Third World countries which are traditionally friendly to Cuba. So, why would ECPAT and its Third World affilates want to bring down the Cuban government? You really are making nonsensical charges in your endeavor to defend Castro's Cuba. Read below:
www.ecpat.net/eng/Ecpat_n.../history.asp
"ECPAT International is a global network dedicated to eliminating the commercial sexual exploitation of children or CSEC. There are now 73 groups in 67 countries in the ECPAT network. The International Secretariat is based in Bangkok, Thailand.
ECPAT’s original name End Child Prostitution in Asian Tourism was changed in 1996 to End Child Prostitution, Child Pornography and Trafficking in Children for sexual purposes, reflecting the organisation’s geographic expansion and broader mandate.
The ECPAT network is composed of the ECPAT groups who are its driving force. Every 3 years they meet as the International Assembly which is the highest decision making body of the organisation. The International Board, composed of 8 representatives from all continents, and an independent Chairperson, are elected at the Assembly and normally serve for three years. The International Secretariat is the administrative and co-ordinating unit of ECPAT International.
In 1996, the ECPAT network consisted of 17 groups. By 1999, the network had grown to 53 groups. Today, the distribution of ECPAT groups is as follows: Africa: 13 groups; Middle East & North Africa (MENA): 2 groups; Americas: 13 groups; East Asia: 11 groups; the Pacific: 3 groups; South Asia: 8 groups; Europe & the CIS: 23 groups.
ECPAT groups are very diverse. Some are large coalitions of NGOs, some are small groups composed of individuals. Some have extensive financial and personnel resources; others have only a few and function with volunteers on a part-time basis. Some groups function at national level, others at a grassroots local level. Some have activities covering a wide range of CSEC issues while others concentrate on one aspect only. Other informal entities, such as ECPAT Europe, a regional grouping of Western European members, and key individuals play a significant role in the functioning of the movement."
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Re: Is Cuba a Sex Mecca?
Mon, December 5, 2005 - 6:04 PMAbayoma wrote:
"You say that calling Cuba a sex mecca would generate laughter from those familiar with places like Brazil, Thailand, Japan, etc...and then you say that those make this charge are trying to bring the Cuban government down. Well, it shouldn't generate laughter, it should generate deep concern.
snip>"
What should generate deep concern? Your missing the whole point. Cuba went through a ten year period when a breeze could have knocked of the economy and at that time their was period when the government could do nothing but let people do whatever they could to survive. Now that things are better, the government really put a stop to the wide spread prostitution that ws occuring pre-2000. Now if a girl is lotering at night in a tourist area and she does not live in that general area, she gets questioned by the police. What more do you want?
"BUT even if Brazil, Thailand and Japan are worst than Cuba which according to ECPAT they are not,
snip>"
How do you know that? According to the ECPAT? Let me get this right, your saying that this "ECPAT" is saying that Bankok Thailand has less sexplotation then Cuba?? Is that what your saying?
"that's still hardly grounds for relief. Sexual tourism is sexploitation, child abuse and therefore a crime. Besides, unlike Brazil, Thailand and Japan, the Cuban people have been forced to suffer through 47 years of revolutionary austerity and sacrifice. The payoff was supposed to be a country of social equality not a country where foreigners go to Cuba to have sex with women and underaged children. Wasn't Castro supposed to have ended sexploitation? Isn't that what Cuba was supposed to have been back in the 1950s, a whore house? So what was all of this sacrifice for? So that Cuba could become a bad immitation of what it was allegedly back in the 1950's?
snip>"
Oh my god, your all over the place now. Lets try to stick to the topic. Now your going to start on the Cuban revolution?
"And now to your charge that those who accuse Cuba of being a Sex Mecca want to bring the Cuban government down, why on earth would ECPAT an international organization with ties to UNICEF want to bring the Cuban government down? That's a pretty hefty accusation that you are making there. According to the ECPAT website, ECPAT is composed of 73 groups in 67 countries and most of those countries are Third World countries which are traditionally friendly to Cuba. So, why would ECPAT and its Third World affilates want to bring down the Cuban government? You really are making nonsensical charges in your endeavor to defend Castro's Cuba. Read below:
snip>"
Yes, I looked at the link below, didn't see Cuba mentioned though. The whole idea of linking Cuba with sex-slavery and child prostitution is so absurd that I can't believe you are seriously saying that. Last year, a Cuban man in the Havana nieghborhood of Buena Vista raped a two year old little girl. People were in disbelief that somebody could be capable of so monstrous an act. Four days later, the man was executed by firing squad. I think the pedofiels stay clear of Cuba.
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be carefull- sex is everywhere
Thu, December 15, 2005 - 8:12 PMNo I wouldnt say that the Cubans have a monopoly on sex, but...
You wouldnt believe how bad things are here in Canada...;(
Yes Cubans are some of the most sensual and sexy-musical people I have met as a notional generalization- Brazil second)
I say this after having visited 74 countries in the last 10 years...
L -
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Re: be carefull- sex is everywhere
Wed, December 21, 2005 - 4:37 AMI agree, maybe Havana and the larger towns have the same problems as any other city in the world (a 12 year old Indian girl who was being used for prostitution was 'rescued' from a room above a cafe just 2 streets away from me in Birmingham, UK a few years back). Outside of the cities maybe things are slightly different.
I've noticed that some of the large, all-inclusive, hotel complexes seem to turn a blind eye to all sorts of behaviour we might find 'distasteful' (and I'm pretty open-minded!). It was common knowledge amongst the staff that a couple of the regular visitors to one hotel I was at only came to Cuba so that they could 'associate' with very young girls (this was a German man and his very strange wife).
There were plenty of girls hanging round with older Canadian guys - probably half of them were just doing it for the day 'pass' into a complex where there was constant 'free' food, drink etc... - and guessing their real ages was impossible. The guys I talked to were very genuine and completely besotted with these girls which was kinda sad.
I think there's more 'exploitation' than prostitution outside the cities - but it goes both ways. As a single, British female over there, I could have my pick of Cuban guys half my age if I so desired. Who would be exploiting whom in that situation? -
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Re: be carefull- sex is everywhere
Sun, January 8, 2006 - 2:58 PMI've been to Cuba about 6 or 7 times, from Holguin to Havana,
and everywhere I've seen the same thing. The ugliest, most looser guys getting it on with Cuban girls. In Havana, I remember seeing this lard-ass guy (who would have no hope in hell with anyone else) with a very young girl, and in one of the clubs in a big hotel, some decrepit old buzzard with a girl who couldn't have been more than 14 y.o. -
I remember being in Varadero, and met this French guy who insisted on telling me about every Cuban girl he slept with, (zzzz...) and he did mention that it was the some of the waiters who hooked him up, and while they didn't ask for money directly, a tip (of sorts) was not refused.
(And yes, there are ugly women with guys too)
Not an argument, just an observation.
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Re: be carefull- sex is everywhere
Wed, January 11, 2006 - 1:23 AMI feel I could add to this but... anybody been to south east Asia?
Actually anywhere in Asia...?
'Woman... nigger of the world ' thats quoting John Lennon.
L
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